Post by Kenny on May 10, 2008 10:40:55 GMT -5
Hi this post is HUGE it was written by Matadorrow on this server. He might be a interesting person but damn he knows his class well so i thought i would share his writeup with you guys.
P.S. This was created a few few months back so armory links might have different specs due to the person changing to different fights, PVP, and or changing specs due to better damage via gear.... Enjoy the write up i hope it helps you hunters out if needed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matadorrow-
I get pms all the time about hunter questions> I also am fully aware that being 20 and not going to class gives me more time then all the other people who play this game. This is about to be the ultimate hunter run down. any questions pls respond on this thread and pm me in game letting me know you have a question. This game is built around mechanics and the better you can use those mechanics the better you'll be. Keep in mind this cannot prevent anyone from being a nub if you cant click on a cube then this post isnt for you lol
.
start with the basics specs.
BM: ideal armory example = www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Turalyon&n=Howitzer This is the ideal gear and spec give or take a couple pieces of gear the ideal shot speed is 2.09 with a shot rotation of 1:1 I will explain shot rotation lower Howitzer was going to be my marksman example but it appears that even the pro marks hunter has switched bm.
The main reason bm takes a bad name is because people assume it is what it once was pre a couple patches ago. it is on par with mage frost spec in that due to patches it has become one of the top specs for the class. Pets no longer attack from infront this removes all pet management due to cleaves and any frontal boss attack. This also doesnt allow your pet to be dodged and parried meaning the boss wont reset its swing timer thus crushing the tanks. Long story short is that pets used to be dodged or parried all the time so being a spec that depended on them was not viable.
Mend pet now heals for 450 a tick and doesnt not require to be channeled thus you no longer need to stop dps. which was cause for bad pet management or pet management with bad dps. Both reasons for not going bm have been corrected.
Bm gives your entire party a 3% dmg buff regardless of caster or physical this makes them very flexible for grouping and is a very postive buff on par with or if not better then trueshot aura but one trueshot aura in a raid is not a bad thing.
bm requires a lot of thinking you have a pet that is 1 3rd your dps so if you dont want to be on your toes for the entire raid then this isnt the spec for you i personally love it and would never rlly want to switch.
bm with 20% faster shots makes you on par with a rogue but you sacrafice mana efficiency to give anotehr party buff imp hunters mark this allows u to give 2 amazing raid buffs. The only way to do this is to use a 1 to 1 shot rotation with both of the most mana efficient shots .... autoshot and steady shot auto requiring no mana and steady being the most efficient viable. These are also both physical and gain the most benefit from armor negation.
the macro for bm shot rotation is listed here
/castsequence reset=2 Steady Shot, !Auto Shot
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill Command
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
steady shot and auto shot are the only shtos you use. The reason this attains so much dps is because by needing not much mana you can always keep up aspect of the hawk and get improved aspect of the hawk to proc.
if bm its best to proc beast within early then again 2 minutes later when its up then 3rd time around it should be usable during the last 20percent and bloodlust . Side note... never use rapid fire during bloodlust.. it brings you way below the 1.5 shot speed cap also side note always time your bloodlust brooch with your beastial wrath they share a timer and will maximise your dps.
best pet hands down only options are ravager or and cat... scorpions and windserpents were only good for one patch and thats because blizz bigged out theyre buffs to pet spell dmg so scorpids and windserpents did 700 dps on theyre own. lmao wtg blizz. Ravagers and cats are + 10 percent dps and have one strong attack and one focus dump which maximize their dps. for more info check petopia.brashendeavors.net/html/articles/skills_list.shtml#claw
bm is good dps but by far the hardest to operate pls be very careful when choosing bm. Also in t6 content you may need to respec for a single fight I.e. archimonde.. theyre is no way to keep your pet alive thus many bm hunters solely spend 100g's for 1 fight so be prepared.
up next marks . Marks is very simple you get a shit ton of ap and can autoshoot to 700 dps you need a good ms (latency) but can achieve amazing dps if you use an appropriate shot rotation. the complete hunter shot illustration is located here
What is Shot Rotation?
In its simplest terms Shot Rotation is the order in which you choose to fire your special shots. Many hunters in wow start off as 'mad button mashers' hitting whatever button doesn't have a 'little spinney clock thing' on top of it.
What that 'young hunter' doesn't understand is the damage they do can be greatly increased by just hitting the buttons in a different order.
Scope
This guide is intended to give a visual representation of the damage done by a hunter over time with the purpose of helping the level 70 hunter decide how to play with their current setup and improve their 'endgame'.
The Concepts
There are some building blocks that you need to understand before you can really get into thinking about shot rotation.
Cooldown: this is one you should be used to already, this is the time between casting any individual ability and casting that same ability again.
Global Cooldown: also known as GCD. This is the minimum time between casting one spell and any other spell.
DPS: Damage Per Second - hopefully self explanatory, your DPS is the amount of damage you do to an enemy in 1 second of time.
DPM: Damage Per Mana - this one is a more advanced concept, not because it is difficult to understand but because you've got to crack out a calculator to figure it out. DPM can also be thought of as efficiency.
DPM is important when dealing with any fight that has the potential to use all of your mana. Once you run out of mana, your DPS drops significantly.
Visually, the shots look like this
So what are we 'Shooting For'?
The ideal shot rotation would probably look something like the above picture over time you would shoot things in the following order.
Steady / Arcane / Auto / Steady / Kill Command (if available) / Auto Steady / Multi (if no Crowd Control)
[repeat]
There are a number of things that can go wrong with 'the perfect shot rotation' some of the biggest variables can't really be controlled for. Human Reaction time & Lag can prevent you from getting it exactly right. As long as you know what you're *TRYING FOR* you're going to be miles ahead of the competition.
So what about the other guys?
The above might seem obvious when you're look at it but compare to what happens if you pick the same set of shots in a different order.
One Hunter told me he always liked to fire his instant shots first … they just feel faster so they've got to be better … *BUT* look at the space between Auto Shots. Any time the Auto Shot is not counting up is a waste of time on your most efficient shot.
The (sort of) Myth of a Fast Weapon
If you have a bad rotation you're going to be doing less than your optimal damage. A slower weapon is more forgiving of bad rotation, a slower weapon is more forgiving of LAG and Human Reaction Time but isn't necessarily *better*
Recall that the MOST efficient shot you have is Auto Shot. The second most efficient shot is Steady…
Imagine if your weapon & talents allowed you to ONLY use the two best shots that exist for a hunter.
You'd be working with the best possible damage per mana … which means you'll still be shooting when others are out of mana. The reality of a fast bow speed (or so it would seem) is that if you adjust the shot rotation you can do the same or even more damage over the longer term.
One trap you can fall into with all that time before the Auto Shot goes off is starting a new Steady Shot too early… this is bad
Although aimed shot does a good amount of damage, it resets the Auto Shot timer.
In the time you are casting ONE Aimed Shot you could have cast
1. Auto Shot
2. Steady Shot
3. Arcane Shot
And you'd be most of the way through casting another Steady and Auto Shot
Essentially, shooting *ONE* aimed shot costs about the same as shooting almost *FIVE* other shots .. though it only does the damage of about 2. It does however retain its value for when you are initiating combat with a misdirect or whatever people to with it in PVP.
Summary
At the end of it all, Shot Rotation comes down to 2 things
#1 - Choosing the Most valuable shot you currently have available
#2 - Minimizing time spent not 'casting'
If you've got a slow attack speed - you will have enough time to safely fit a Second Special into every second or third set of shots… that is less efficient in terms of mana consumption but does a lot of damage sooner.
If you've got a fast attack speed you're going to leave out … well … basically everything but Steady Shot
if you need a sit down explanation of this contact me in game ill go thru the mechanics they look tricky but are quite simple ...if you dont want to take the time to understand these... get the out of our soon to be t6 content lol
survival armory perfect example = eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Magtheridon&n=Ahoq
keep in mind that both links to armory might have changed as players pvp and these are theorycrafters thus always changing specs but if you need the bm spec or are debating gear msg me and if u need tips on survival spec just armory korban and if u need advice on gear stack agility for surv nubtard.
Surv at end game gives around 230-300 ap to all physical that measn hunters and melee and tanks and everything pets all that jazz it is a boss debuff much like sundering armor and much like sundering armor should be present in every fight
not bringing a survival hunter is like having 6 palis and clicking of greater blessing of might.. if you are raiding with enigma and its a boss that could cause you to wipe look around for a surv hunter.. if there isnt one suggest that one of the hunters going respeccs and the one with the most agility should step up to the plate.. marks = 125 ap to their party only surv = 230 atleast for everyone.. if you do go surv drink an agi pot instead of relentless assault surv is about everyone elses dps which in 25 mans is much more important.. a good rogue will always dps you... learn to love it and learn to make them better.. that being said you never need more then one that buff doesnt stack so the surv hunter with less agility is useless.
Potting... as bm you will need to be fully stocked on mana pots much like marks...
as surv u will gain 40% mana back everytime you crit thus you can use health or rejuve pots helping out your healers... when using health pots dont be retarded and use them during "no aggro phases" i.e. murlocs coming out on tidewalker
gearing is tricky because it depends on spec personal shot preference and availability so pls feel free to pm me before bidding on something if you think it might not be a right choice .. i am not retarded i know when you should be bidding on something and i will never gain anything from you telling me that your bidding you can also ask me pre boss so theres no conflict i will let you know why its good bad or useless... i.e. alars trinket for bm hunters = useless as arcane shot is never once used
Random thought but very good point... never use serpent shot unless u need to run around everywhere and its your only instant available it is a waste of a global cooldown and pushes important warlock and shadowpriest dots off... bosses can only have 25 dots up on them and by throwing serpent sting up you have now thrown up the worst one... you also could have used a shot that causes the boss to miss 5% more of melee attacks pls ask your tank if he wants you to use it as too much avoidance = lack of threat...
Feign death isnt used when you pull aggro its used every 30 seconds thus if it fails it is no biggie because it will be up again before you pull threat anyways. 2 failures in a row is unlucky and causes spacebar hoping but so be it.
if your still reading pm me in game cowabunga and then i will know that you put time and effort into your class
If your not you have decided that you know it all as a hunter which i can accept i just better not out dps you.
I have not listed an armory of a marks hunter but feel free to pm me ingame ill check your profile and give ya some feedback. I do not know everything about hunters but i can assure you i've put a lot of work into trying too and feel ive come pretty close.
when ever viable gem 8 agility unless you need the set bonus or have 1 of the 3 epic pvp or jewelcrafting ones... 8 agility regardless of spec is your highest dps gem
142 hit rating without survival specd pts into surefooted
95 without it... that being said its easy as hell hit capping as a hunter and i never wanna see you below 15 off of cap.
never use anything but a cat or ravager in pvp on a full out dps team and never use anything but a scorpion on a mana drain team. i could go on for days about pvp strats but this is a pve guiild so ill stop there.
in terms of loot... we do not use loot counsel, never assume that because something has agility that it will be yours many classes that want weapons and trinkets and neck pieces share the same or close to itemization as you.. do not presume they will not bid dkp is a made up thing and is meant to be used pls feel free to use it.
haste and armor negation benefit more while stacked pls pm me before you decide to deitemize for these 2 things as you will see a decrease in dps if you sacrafice stats for either until they hit a decent number
if you use a ravager but dont spec both bm and marks for more pet rage lock up their dash as it is a huge rage dump.. is pec both so i can leave dash on to pull my pet in and out of aoe but if not speccd for more rage he'd hit like a pillow with dash on.
raid pets must always have avoidance and cobra reflexes
these are the basics if i really went more indepth i'd have to charge money
I always have your best interest in mind so pls pm me whether its about socket bonuses haste rating stats or picking up chicks feel free to pm me or use enigfd channel
Peace, Love and Aimed shots
P.S. This was created a few few months back so armory links might have different specs due to the person changing to different fights, PVP, and or changing specs due to better damage via gear.... Enjoy the write up i hope it helps you hunters out if needed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matadorrow-
I get pms all the time about hunter questions> I also am fully aware that being 20 and not going to class gives me more time then all the other people who play this game. This is about to be the ultimate hunter run down. any questions pls respond on this thread and pm me in game letting me know you have a question. This game is built around mechanics and the better you can use those mechanics the better you'll be. Keep in mind this cannot prevent anyone from being a nub if you cant click on a cube then this post isnt for you lol
. start with the basics specs.
BM: ideal armory example = www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Turalyon&n=Howitzer This is the ideal gear and spec give or take a couple pieces of gear the ideal shot speed is 2.09 with a shot rotation of 1:1 I will explain shot rotation lower Howitzer was going to be my marksman example but it appears that even the pro marks hunter has switched bm.
The main reason bm takes a bad name is because people assume it is what it once was pre a couple patches ago. it is on par with mage frost spec in that due to patches it has become one of the top specs for the class. Pets no longer attack from infront this removes all pet management due to cleaves and any frontal boss attack. This also doesnt allow your pet to be dodged and parried meaning the boss wont reset its swing timer thus crushing the tanks. Long story short is that pets used to be dodged or parried all the time so being a spec that depended on them was not viable.
Mend pet now heals for 450 a tick and doesnt not require to be channeled thus you no longer need to stop dps. which was cause for bad pet management or pet management with bad dps. Both reasons for not going bm have been corrected.
Bm gives your entire party a 3% dmg buff regardless of caster or physical this makes them very flexible for grouping and is a very postive buff on par with or if not better then trueshot aura but one trueshot aura in a raid is not a bad thing.
bm requires a lot of thinking you have a pet that is 1 3rd your dps so if you dont want to be on your toes for the entire raid then this isnt the spec for you i personally love it and would never rlly want to switch.
bm with 20% faster shots makes you on par with a rogue but you sacrafice mana efficiency to give anotehr party buff imp hunters mark this allows u to give 2 amazing raid buffs. The only way to do this is to use a 1 to 1 shot rotation with both of the most mana efficient shots .... autoshot and steady shot auto requiring no mana and steady being the most efficient viable. These are also both physical and gain the most benefit from armor negation.
the macro for bm shot rotation is listed here
/castsequence reset=2 Steady Shot, !Auto Shot
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill Command
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
steady shot and auto shot are the only shtos you use. The reason this attains so much dps is because by needing not much mana you can always keep up aspect of the hawk and get improved aspect of the hawk to proc.
if bm its best to proc beast within early then again 2 minutes later when its up then 3rd time around it should be usable during the last 20percent and bloodlust . Side note... never use rapid fire during bloodlust.. it brings you way below the 1.5 shot speed cap also side note always time your bloodlust brooch with your beastial wrath they share a timer and will maximise your dps.
best pet hands down only options are ravager or and cat... scorpions and windserpents were only good for one patch and thats because blizz bigged out theyre buffs to pet spell dmg so scorpids and windserpents did 700 dps on theyre own. lmao wtg blizz. Ravagers and cats are + 10 percent dps and have one strong attack and one focus dump which maximize their dps. for more info check petopia.brashendeavors.net/html/articles/skills_list.shtml#claw
bm is good dps but by far the hardest to operate pls be very careful when choosing bm. Also in t6 content you may need to respec for a single fight I.e. archimonde.. theyre is no way to keep your pet alive thus many bm hunters solely spend 100g's for 1 fight so be prepared.
up next marks . Marks is very simple you get a shit ton of ap and can autoshoot to 700 dps you need a good ms (latency) but can achieve amazing dps if you use an appropriate shot rotation. the complete hunter shot illustration is located here
What is Shot Rotation?
In its simplest terms Shot Rotation is the order in which you choose to fire your special shots. Many hunters in wow start off as 'mad button mashers' hitting whatever button doesn't have a 'little spinney clock thing' on top of it.
What that 'young hunter' doesn't understand is the damage they do can be greatly increased by just hitting the buttons in a different order.
Scope
This guide is intended to give a visual representation of the damage done by a hunter over time with the purpose of helping the level 70 hunter decide how to play with their current setup and improve their 'endgame'.
The Concepts
There are some building blocks that you need to understand before you can really get into thinking about shot rotation.
Cooldown: this is one you should be used to already, this is the time between casting any individual ability and casting that same ability again.
Global Cooldown: also known as GCD. This is the minimum time between casting one spell and any other spell.
DPS: Damage Per Second - hopefully self explanatory, your DPS is the amount of damage you do to an enemy in 1 second of time.
DPM: Damage Per Mana - this one is a more advanced concept, not because it is difficult to understand but because you've got to crack out a calculator to figure it out. DPM can also be thought of as efficiency.
DPM is important when dealing with any fight that has the potential to use all of your mana. Once you run out of mana, your DPS drops significantly.
Visually, the shots look like this
So what are we 'Shooting For'?
The ideal shot rotation would probably look something like the above picture over time you would shoot things in the following order.
Steady / Arcane / Auto / Steady / Kill Command (if available) / Auto Steady / Multi (if no Crowd Control)
[repeat]
There are a number of things that can go wrong with 'the perfect shot rotation' some of the biggest variables can't really be controlled for. Human Reaction time & Lag can prevent you from getting it exactly right. As long as you know what you're *TRYING FOR* you're going to be miles ahead of the competition.
So what about the other guys?
The above might seem obvious when you're look at it but compare to what happens if you pick the same set of shots in a different order.
One Hunter told me he always liked to fire his instant shots first … they just feel faster so they've got to be better … *BUT* look at the space between Auto Shots. Any time the Auto Shot is not counting up is a waste of time on your most efficient shot.
The (sort of) Myth of a Fast Weapon
If you have a bad rotation you're going to be doing less than your optimal damage. A slower weapon is more forgiving of bad rotation, a slower weapon is more forgiving of LAG and Human Reaction Time but isn't necessarily *better*
Recall that the MOST efficient shot you have is Auto Shot. The second most efficient shot is Steady…
Imagine if your weapon & talents allowed you to ONLY use the two best shots that exist for a hunter.
You'd be working with the best possible damage per mana … which means you'll still be shooting when others are out of mana. The reality of a fast bow speed (or so it would seem) is that if you adjust the shot rotation you can do the same or even more damage over the longer term.
One trap you can fall into with all that time before the Auto Shot goes off is starting a new Steady Shot too early… this is bad
Although aimed shot does a good amount of damage, it resets the Auto Shot timer.
In the time you are casting ONE Aimed Shot you could have cast
1. Auto Shot
2. Steady Shot
3. Arcane Shot
And you'd be most of the way through casting another Steady and Auto Shot
Essentially, shooting *ONE* aimed shot costs about the same as shooting almost *FIVE* other shots .. though it only does the damage of about 2. It does however retain its value for when you are initiating combat with a misdirect or whatever people to with it in PVP.
Summary
At the end of it all, Shot Rotation comes down to 2 things
#1 - Choosing the Most valuable shot you currently have available
#2 - Minimizing time spent not 'casting'
If you've got a slow attack speed - you will have enough time to safely fit a Second Special into every second or third set of shots… that is less efficient in terms of mana consumption but does a lot of damage sooner.
If you've got a fast attack speed you're going to leave out … well … basically everything but Steady Shot
if you need a sit down explanation of this contact me in game ill go thru the mechanics they look tricky but are quite simple ...if you dont want to take the time to understand these... get the out of our soon to be t6 content lol
survival armory perfect example = eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Magtheridon&n=Ahoq
keep in mind that both links to armory might have changed as players pvp and these are theorycrafters thus always changing specs but if you need the bm spec or are debating gear msg me and if u need tips on survival spec just armory korban and if u need advice on gear stack agility for surv nubtard.
Surv at end game gives around 230-300 ap to all physical that measn hunters and melee and tanks and everything pets all that jazz it is a boss debuff much like sundering armor and much like sundering armor should be present in every fight
not bringing a survival hunter is like having 6 palis and clicking of greater blessing of might.. if you are raiding with enigma and its a boss that could cause you to wipe look around for a surv hunter.. if there isnt one suggest that one of the hunters going respeccs and the one with the most agility should step up to the plate.. marks = 125 ap to their party only surv = 230 atleast for everyone.. if you do go surv drink an agi pot instead of relentless assault surv is about everyone elses dps which in 25 mans is much more important.. a good rogue will always dps you... learn to love it and learn to make them better.. that being said you never need more then one that buff doesnt stack so the surv hunter with less agility is useless.
Potting... as bm you will need to be fully stocked on mana pots much like marks...
as surv u will gain 40% mana back everytime you crit thus you can use health or rejuve pots helping out your healers... when using health pots dont be retarded and use them during "no aggro phases" i.e. murlocs coming out on tidewalker
gearing is tricky because it depends on spec personal shot preference and availability so pls feel free to pm me before bidding on something if you think it might not be a right choice .. i am not retarded i know when you should be bidding on something and i will never gain anything from you telling me that your bidding you can also ask me pre boss so theres no conflict i will let you know why its good bad or useless... i.e. alars trinket for bm hunters = useless as arcane shot is never once used
Random thought but very good point... never use serpent shot unless u need to run around everywhere and its your only instant available it is a waste of a global cooldown and pushes important warlock and shadowpriest dots off... bosses can only have 25 dots up on them and by throwing serpent sting up you have now thrown up the worst one... you also could have used a shot that causes the boss to miss 5% more of melee attacks pls ask your tank if he wants you to use it as too much avoidance = lack of threat...
Feign death isnt used when you pull aggro its used every 30 seconds thus if it fails it is no biggie because it will be up again before you pull threat anyways. 2 failures in a row is unlucky and causes spacebar hoping but so be it.
if your still reading pm me in game cowabunga and then i will know that you put time and effort into your class
If your not you have decided that you know it all as a hunter which i can accept i just better not out dps you.
I have not listed an armory of a marks hunter but feel free to pm me ingame ill check your profile and give ya some feedback. I do not know everything about hunters but i can assure you i've put a lot of work into trying too and feel ive come pretty close.
when ever viable gem 8 agility unless you need the set bonus or have 1 of the 3 epic pvp or jewelcrafting ones... 8 agility regardless of spec is your highest dps gem
142 hit rating without survival specd pts into surefooted
95 without it... that being said its easy as hell hit capping as a hunter and i never wanna see you below 15 off of cap.
never use anything but a cat or ravager in pvp on a full out dps team and never use anything but a scorpion on a mana drain team. i could go on for days about pvp strats but this is a pve guiild so ill stop there.
in terms of loot... we do not use loot counsel, never assume that because something has agility that it will be yours many classes that want weapons and trinkets and neck pieces share the same or close to itemization as you.. do not presume they will not bid dkp is a made up thing and is meant to be used pls feel free to use it.
haste and armor negation benefit more while stacked pls pm me before you decide to deitemize for these 2 things as you will see a decrease in dps if you sacrafice stats for either until they hit a decent number
if you use a ravager but dont spec both bm and marks for more pet rage lock up their dash as it is a huge rage dump.. is pec both so i can leave dash on to pull my pet in and out of aoe but if not speccd for more rage he'd hit like a pillow with dash on.
raid pets must always have avoidance and cobra reflexes
these are the basics if i really went more indepth i'd have to charge money
I always have your best interest in mind so pls pm me whether its about socket bonuses haste rating stats or picking up chicks feel free to pm me or use enigfd channel
Peace, Love and Aimed shots
